Comments to Comments
John: I had the idea in 1980 of starting or in being part of a self-healing community in a sunny region such as Needles, California along the Colorado River. Thousands of other suitable locations for a solar healing center exist. But I knew of no one else who is interested in sungazing. Now there is some publicity being given to sungazers and sungazing. So I am not so afraid to suggest the idea of a solar healing community.
BeiYin: So even with publicity of sungazing there are not more people interested in a 'Selfhealing & Sungazing Center'. You can see it right here in this mailing list: You are the only person who responded to my post.John: How many persons do you think would be interested in such a community if some medical doctors could be found who want to work there and show their scientific
interest. This would help increase the credibility of the general public. Without some serious participation by medical scientists, the general public is likely to dismiss this as quackery. I've been studying this problem now for over twenty years.
BeiYin: In my offer for a healing center I have included the assistance of medical doctors, who would make the checks and the supervision.
Apart of this, the expression 'self healing' means, that people must be responsible for themselves and NOT depend on med. doctors or any other authority.
If a 'self healing center' is guided by med. doctors, then it is not a self healing center. I am studying the problem of dependencies of the general public and also of this of the individuals for more than fifty years and a am pretty free of illusions about this...John: In 1983, because of the public ignorance and fear against new ideas, including sungazing, I elected to withdraw into study and writing until I could find some open-minded persons to work with. This forum has attracted many persons who are either experienced sungazers or are interested in beginning sungazing under the kind and informed guidance of HRM and other experienced sungazers.
BeiYin: To find 'like minded' people is not too difficult and they are 'open' in so far as their own concept is confirmed. But from the concept to the realization is a long way and often not the goal of people who are looking for an exchange. When people are interested in sungazing then there might be many different reasons for this. It would be interesting to find out about it. Like with every thing it might be that people doing something because it is new and kind of 'exotic'. If they would know from the beginning that sungazing has a strong influence on their transformational process of their personality, then they probably would not even start with it.
What do you mean by 'an experienced sungazer'? In how far can such a person give 'guidance'? I can see that there are some people in this mailing list who know about the technical questions of sungazing, how to do it and how to deal with body reactions, but until now I haven't seen that people can deal in a creative and conscious way with emotional reactions coming up during the sungazing practice.John: Now BeiYin has introduced this healing center in Spain, and his experiences with many different methods of unorthodox healing. My focus from the start of my work is on sunbathing, sungazing, vegetarianism and automatic imagery produced by my own brain and by the brains of other persons in inspiration, dreams, or in meditation. These images have guided me and provided me with helpful ideas.
BeiYin: So what are your ideas to deal with the problems showing up with people in a 'Sungazing Center' I have described in my post?
If your focus stays on the practical and physical then this tells me that you have no experience with working with people in a center. If your work until now is limited to theoretical ideas, then you don't even know what I am talking about. If your images have guided you and provided you with helpful ideas, then you are moving still within the mind level. What about jumping into something more real like coming to FalconBlanco and encounter the problems showing up? I believe that I have made it clear in my previous post that I can't see a 'Sungazing Center' here at FalconBlanco and I have described my reasons, but also I had ask for suggestions...John: I am wondering who else is interested in working in a solar healing center?
BeiYin: Probably there are people interested to find a new 'profile' for themselves. To experience themselves and find confirmation for their ideas and images. The best for this is to make your own sungazing center, because if you are the founder and because of this also the leader, then you get the most out of it and you can live your images to a certain extent. - Until the reality takes over... But this is something you have to experience yourself and any kind of concept or image will not substitute the experience coming out of the confrontation with reality - with people and with yourself!John: In the 1980s I met two local persons who independently discovered sungazing for self-healing and/or inspiration. Neither person was interested in working with me. Each one was on his or her singular path. But society works as many persons cooperate and
collaborate. This prehistoric reality needs to be re-learned by us moderns, who since the beginning of secular education have been saturated in the secular idealism of individuality and bombarded with the modern idea of individual competition and making
yourself into a distinguished and highly successful competitor. The visions of concerted harmony and cooperation presented by the cells of the healthy body and the organs and tissues working together is different. With increasing health and vigor the value of the organic whole becomes more and more clear.
BeiYin: In my view it is a question of 'evolution of humanity'. At this point people are just not ready for certain steps. They are great in developing ideas, concepts and images, but when it comes to realize these, then they don't dare to do this step, because they sense that they have to expose their personality and they are not ready to allow any reduction of this. They are still in the phase of wanting to enrich themselves that means that every thing turns around themselves and they are not capable to go beyond, to maybe experience intuition and a vision beyond their limited view - there 'success' has a totally different value and 'competing' finally comes to an end.
From John L.Water's Web site: "Frequently Asked Questions"
Copyright 2002 by John L. Waters. All Rights Reserved.
http://members.tripod.com/johnlwaters
Q: What is The Demonstration Peace Center?
John: The Demonstration Peace Center is a place where people come and relax and sense the energy I feel while creating new works of art, music, and writing. This opens up new awareness. Peace enables you to relax and do better than you could ever do before.
BeiYin: I see that there doesn't exist any physical space or place. It is an idea, you are talking about your concept. This is a fantasy not yet proved by experiences.Q: What energy are you talking about?
John: This energy is described by many inspired writers in books which contain accounts of personal experiences which no one could explain using clear language. For example, on page 125 of his book "Nature, Man And Woman", Alan Watts describes an experience he had in his garden towards evening. Such experiences have been called "mystical". This energy has been described by Barbara Brown, MD as "Supermind-The Ultimate Energy" in her book by that title. For more information, go to Introducing My Independent Medical Research.
BeiYin: Again you are talking about theories, something other people maybe experienced and have written about it. Wouldn't it be better to forget about all written and go for the experience in your personal life? It might be possible that a concept about something inhibits to make an experience...Q: Are you implying that you have a theory which clearly explains what this energy is?
John: I have a theory of precise language humans use, which provides a model for the space and time in which we live and move freely without needing to be consciously trying to control our thoughts, feelings, and movements. Jiddu Krishnamurti called this meditation. In meditation people move with greater precision and grace.
BeiYin: You are strongly identified with your mind. This gives you the feeling of your existence, in this you feel secure and familiar. You are trying to expand your mind and somehow you succeed, but you are bound to the mind and there is no way to stay on this level and at the same time to go beyond and this would be necessary to truly expand yourself, your view and your existence. But as you are limited to your mind - even though being very sophisticated in it - your personality which consist in this strong identification, will never be able to go beyond itself. To do so you need to do first a few steps of 'self-knowledge' and this would mean to see and understand the game you are playing with yourself and a few things more, which you will get to know if you ask for it.Q: When people come to your peace center, can you teach them something useful that they can't learn at some other center?
John: There are many spiritual centers, and each teacher has a special manner of teaching this subject. At certain locations there is more spiritual energy and it is easier for a person to sense the spiritual energy at these locations. Vegetation and geographical
features distinguish a spiritual center. What I teach and show people helps a person relate the old ideas of spirit to modern concepts which help integrate science and spirituality. I help a person understand how to sense the spiritual energy in a location and in a person. There is a useful theory to this.
BeiYin: Instead of giving a constructive answer you are talking about 'energy'. Where is this 'peace center'? Why you don't say that it doesn't exist, that it is just an idea? That you are trying to connect science with spirituality sounds interesting but is lacking practical sense.Q: Do you charge a fee for your services?
John: I haven't been charging any fee. If what I show you is of help, you can find some ways to help me in return, or you can help someone else in need. Donations are welcome.
BeiYin: Sorry that I have to tell you that I can't see how you could help somebody except confirming their concepts or adding new aspects to the existing. If you are giving really for free, then you won't even expect a donation, not even mention it.Q: How did you obtain the knowledge you have?
John: As a young man I studied for many years at the University. I graduated with high honors in 1962 with a double major in mathematics and biology. Later I learned a lot through inspiration and by visiting with people from many walks of life. I also read many books and did a lot of creative work while monitoring my own activity as a developing person.
BeiYin: That's obvious that you read a lot of books and the people you visited for sure confirmed your beautiful theories. I don't doubt that you are a developing person, with good intentions, although I can't sense even traces of inspiration in your writings.Q: What does your work add to human knowledge?
John: My work provides a precision theory for the process and the means by which the dimensions of space and time are unified at every point inside of our bodies and outside of our bodies. By coming to sense this more fully, humans grow greatly in their personal wisdom and power. The universe is integrated. For humans to become integrated and live in peace, individuals will need to understand how the universe is integrated and feel
this immense power which Jiddu Krishnamurti often called "the benediction."
BeiYin: That is good that the universe is integrated in your theory. - - - Can't you see what you are doing here?Q: How does your work relate to the work of Wilhelm Reich?
John: My work deals with the same inner process which Wilhelm Reich was studying. According to my research, there is a precise way of understanding what integrates time and space at each point in the universe.
Experts use the same mathematical model to measure amounts of time and amounts of space. The same means of measuring is used by mathematicians the world over.
By examining this precision language the subtle workings of even the most active human mind can be understood in a way which can be used by other persons to understand the most active and most inspired persons the world has ever known.
BeiYin: Your work deals with the same inner process? What means you are 'dealing' with it? It is a hell of difference if one is studying it or one is going through such a process. It is easy to research about 'time and space at each point in the universe' instead of relating to one's own misery. How can one 'understand' an inspired person if one is not capable to be inspired oneself?Q: That sounds like a major claim. How do you back up this claim? What evidence can you provide that enables a person to believe you?
John: My research is on understanding the creative inspiration which enables a person to produce a large number of poems and other matter which relates to the state of inspiration itself.
Inspiration relates two or more objects, ideas or persons whom other people do not consider related. That is, if you go to the beach and you pick up three stones from
different parts of the beach, and put them in a basket you carry, then you are relating those stones in a particular way. Your actions are creative. Each arrangement of these
stones you make is a creative act on your part. This shows you that most anyone can be creative if he makes an effort to obtain objects and arrange them in different ways.
By being creative with our language and ourselves, we can understand what is deeper than just the material universe.
BeiYin: Only an 'artist' can understand what 'art' is. Only someone 'enlightened' can understand what 'enlightenment' means. And you believe you can make people understand what 'inspiration' is? So that they can write then inspired poems? I read your poems, hm, they don't convince me at all of your theory.Q: But is just arranging stones making fine art?
John: If the large stones are diamonds, then everyone will want to obtain the piece you have made. Or if your name is Van Gogh or Picasso, then many people will buy your work no matter what it looks like. This suggests that for the artist the main function of art is
therapeutic. The artist is a therapist who is working out some internal problems through his or her art. Some artists are recognized for their art, but a great many are not.
BeiYin: John, sorry, but you should not talk about art. You are right in so far that whatever one is doing it is a kind of therapy by trying to manifest oneself and fighting against reality with it's own response and not this what we want to confirm our existence. An artist is not a therapist who is assisting people to clear up their confused
structure. Artists are trying to express themselves, this can be a therapeutic process but not necessarily. Most of them are as unconscious about their doing the same as other people. The produced art serves in most cases to confirm their feeling of existence especially when their art is recognized and this is strengthened if the art pieces are sold for a lot of money.Q: Why have you told some people that you are The Messiah?
John: I have sometimes said this because there are several persons in the world today whom people are calling The Messiah, and yet not one of these individuals is explaining the old prophecy of The Messiah given by the Jews many centuries before the birth of Jesus the Christian Messiah. The idea of The Messiah therefore is valued by many modern people, and yet people have trouble in agreeing what this term The Messiah
actually refers to the prophet Isaiah used the word image of the stone the builders refused becoming the chief corner stone. Therefore, if the Prophets were accurate in their prophecy, at some point there will be a reversal in human attitudes, and many persons presently seen as having little or no value will be seen having great value. This will happen only after The Messiah is recognized. One can identify The Messiah as a peace principle not followed by just one person but by a great many persons.
Wilhelm Reich may have believed for a time that he was The Messiah and many insane people believe that they are The Messiah. But none of these people has ever brought forward a scientific peace plan, and the old prophecy of The Messiah was for a certain person to transform all the nations into peaceful nations.
Without the testable scientific peace plan, there can be no actual Messiah. Of course, the new research needs to be tested by more people. For more information, go to Introducing My Independent Medical Research.
BeiYin: John, you seem - in spite of your developed intellect - to be quite naive. How can you say of yourself that you are a 'Messiah'. I understand what you mean, but knowing people and how they react, one should not claim something like this. With this you are reducing your self reputation quite a lot and it is obvious that this is important for you, when one can see how often you mention your education and the titles you own.Q: Are you saying that you have a scientific peace plan?
John: Since 1980 I've been testing a certain principle and process, which I describe in my lectures, my demonstrations and my writings. This process relates to a person's perceiving himself or herself differently, as a new priority is being exercised. It takes you some time to learn this method, just as it took time for you to learn to talk and read.
But it appears that this reversal of old priorities is very therapeutic and pacifying. More testing needs to be done by more persons, under the supervision of professional scientists. The first Demonstration Peace Center should be a piece of real estate located in a place where these studies can be carried out, probably not far from some existing medical research center. For instance, near Tel Aviv, in Israel, or near San Diego, in California.
This study should be made in an area free of pollution.
BeiYin: It is understandable that if you are on this strong 'mind trip' for more than twenty years, that it is nearly impossible to come down to take part in our ugly daily life. John, there is no other way: You need to come down. You need to realize the 'peace center' within yourself, there is no other way around. Your idea with the peace center might still keep you busy for some time but reality will respond to you and bring you down. As you are doing sungazing, this will help you, so that you can step beside and observe yourself... You have suffered enough and survived by going into this strong mind trip. Are you not ready to go beyond this and step out of it? I know from my own experience that this is extremely hard. But only this is true evolution, I guess you know this... I wish you the trust in yourself and what guides you that you can do a step beyond yourself. I am pretty sure that if you practice the sungazing then everything will fall into it's place...
Be realistic! Is there any place on this planet which is free of pollution? There isn't. And probably even the moon is polluted. Wherever humans appear they bring pollution with them...
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